orichalcum: (Pre-Rafe)
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posted by [personal profile] orichalcum at 07:29pm on 22/01/2008 under
So, one of the stories I'm mentioning in my job talk on Roman representations of female desire is that of Ummidia Quadratilla. The (conservative male) author Pliny praises his elderly widow friend Ummidia because she shields her young grandson from the performances of her private mime troupe. To clarify things, we're not talking "I'm in a box" mimes here, but rather what were almost certainly extremely lewd and mostly nude farcical takes on ancient myths.

Anyways, I was trying to think of a modern comparison in order to demonstrate the difference between Roman female sexual mores and modern American ones - that while Pliny is slightly disapproving, he thinks Ummidia is a totally decent person despite her penchant for mimes. I'm trying to come up with a well-known older, preferably unmarried American woman who one could imagine being shocked by if a newspaper ran a story about how she frequently hired male strippers or snuck into X-rated movies. At first I thought of Nancy Pelosi, but there is the added political aspect there, plus she's married.

So that's the challenge for you - name an instantly recognizable older (preferably over 60) unmarried American woman for my hypothetical comparison scenario. Imagine her having her own private troupe of male strippers.

Question 2: One of the other topics I'm thinking about, drawn from Rebecca Langlands' book on Roman sexual morality, is the idea that _pudicitia_, a word meaning something between chastity and modesty, was a virtue which required public display. Women supposedly had competitions to see who had the most _pudicitia_; one source even claims that some women got to wear wreaths of _pudicitia._ In one famous case, a patrician woman who had married a plebeian man was forbidden to sacrifice at the temple of Patrician Pudicitia. So she left and founded her own temple of Plebeian Pudicitia in irritation and challenged other plebeian women to have even more pudicitia than the patrician women did.

So here I'm trying to think of an American social or religious group which mandates prominent public display of a virtue, in a competitive way. Langlands insightfully suggests Purity Balls and the whole silver ring/key thing, but you don't hear about prizes being given to the girl who lasts the longest or splinter groups for Latina or Asian-American Purity Balls or whatever. Any suggestions? I thought of Girl Scouts but I don't know if there are any moral virtue badges?
location: home
Mood:: 'curious' curious
There are 17 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] spyscribe.livejournal.com at 02:07am on 23/01/2008
Is Barbara Walters married? Because if not, she could certainly fit the bill.

The other one is tougher. While I suspect that many subcultures definitely get the "more chaste than thou" vibe going, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with an explicitly competitive example, not to mention one that would be familiar to an audience that isn't a member of the applicable sub-group.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 03:38am on 23/01/2008
Ooh, divorced three times. She works well! And she's 78!
 
posted by [identity profile] stolen-tea.livejournal.com at 02:10am on 23/01/2008
Martha Stewart is 66?
 
posted by [identity profile] redhound.livejournal.com at 02:15am on 23/01/2008
Madeline Albright, perhaps?

The other thing made me think of that thing they do at some weddings where all the married couples take to the dancefloor and then have to leave in groups by duration of marriage. It's not exactly competitive, but it's comparative.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 03:29am on 23/01/2008
The Snowball Dance. That's a very good thought, thanks! Not precisely moral but very closely connected with ideas of appropriate social choices.

I like Albright - the visual works very nicely in the appropriately shocking way.

 
posted by [identity profile] ladybird97.livejournal.com at 02:21am on 23/01/2008
Thinking about this makes me want to wash out my brain. Which, I suppose, is the point :)

I initially thought Martha Stewart too, but she's an odd case because of her legal troubles - her reputation isn't exactly spotless.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 03:34am on 23/01/2008
True, although she's never been accused of sexual immorality. Part of my point is that our culture doesn't have a model for acceptable expressions of sexual desire by post-menopausal women. We think it's weird and icky.

The Romans didn't; they found it a little risque, perhaps, but unproblematic precisely because there's no challenge to male familial authority if an elderly female widow is enjoying x-rated entertainment; she's acceptably outside the normal familial structure and the only danger is corrupting her grandson, which she carefully avoids doing. She's still demonstrating her familial loyalty but her sexuality is no longer at all threatening.

Sorry, thinking as I write.
 
posted by [identity profile] greenelephant.livejournal.com at 02:31am on 23/01/2008
For pudicitia, how about the opposite example: strings of beads at Mardi Gras? (Unless you're giving your talk in NOLA, where they might take offense) ;-)
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 03:27am on 23/01/2008
hmm...flashing in exchange for them, you mean? Possibly, though I'm not sure that there's unambiguous praise going on there for the women involved. :) It's an interesting thought, though.
 
posted by [identity profile] wildpaletz.livejournal.com at 03:36am on 23/01/2008
Glenn Close? I think she just turned 60 last year. Though she's married.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 03:39am on 23/01/2008
She has too many femme fatale associations already; I want someone who doesn't code as "dangerously sexy." Same with Meryl Streep.
 
posted by [identity profile] epilimnion.livejournal.com at 03:55am on 23/01/2008
What about the practice/use of the purity tests that were passed around during my undergraduate years? It wasn't a formal organizational thing, nor were there prizes, but it was a comparative exercise among friends, etc.
 
posted by [identity profile] bloodstones.livejournal.com at 04:53am on 23/01/2008
Yeah, but the problem with those is that there are as many people and social groups who compete for the lowest purity score as the highest.
 
posted by [identity profile] jab2.livejournal.com at 05:02am on 23/01/2008
#2--abstinence pledges in high school, complete with bracelet?
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 05:27am on 23/01/2008
Yeah, as I said, I do think that's the closest, although without the competitive social group aspect.
 
posted by [identity profile] kid-cthulhu.livejournal.com at 03:09pm on 23/01/2008
Olympia Dukakis.

How about organizations like the DoR or Junior Leagues? They have a very strong air of holier than thou, although it covers an entire spectrum, not just sex.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 04:30pm on 23/01/2008
Yeah, that's very much the right sort of organization, I think, but I don't know much about them. I mean, I guess technically I've got DaR lineage, but...and I never did Junior League.

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