So, while body-image is important for both men and women, I think it's a much larger psychological issue for most women (there's an interesting article in the NYT on how subordinate monkeys eat fatty treats and feel better, but when subordinate female office workers eat fatty treats, they briefly feel better and then feel guilty.) So in that context I (and a large number of feminist scholars) see it as a feminist issue -because it's a way in which women tend to dis themselves/be dissed by others.
On a related note, anyone else notice a massive increase in catcalling since the weather got better? I swear, guys, when you're hooting at a 30-year-old plumpish mom walking her dog...(yes, I was wearing a low-ish cut shirt, because CP and i were going out to dinner, but...)
I wonder what the right range is for supporting reproduction, actually?
Mostly, my point was that this Flickr site provided a way for me to see a disjunction between BMI and my own concepts of attractive body image; jdw and contrariety and others are totally correct that the next step is not "Aha,BMI is wrong; I will eat as much ice cream as I want!" but rather "BMI is about health, roughly, and that's different from average attractiveness, esp. as BMI normal /= average (which turns out to be size 14 for U.S. women)."
There's also an interesting separate issue here, which is that doctors are explicitly valuing length of life over all other considerations. (I know that extremely low-calorie diets are said to extend life, for instance.) Personally, I'd be happy to sacrifice, say, the years 87-90 in return for 8 decades of occasional really yummy food cooked in lots of butter.
I was going to mention that--apparently studies have been done that if you fast one day a week you can extend your life. Um, hello, I'll pass! :) It's a hard balancing act that an individual human has to make--how do you balance lifespan with living an enjoyable life and where do you set your own "price point"?
Yeah, I'm totally unwilling to do the extra-low calorie diet either.
As far as body fat, men can get down to 2-3% before their brain gets starved for fat and dies (bodybuilders try to get down to this a few days before a show, then gain it back right away). Women are more like 12%. But they stop menstruating around 15-18% I think.
I wonder what the right range is for supporting reproduction, actually?
It's been a while, but I was fascinated by this back in my undergrad days. I remember reading one study that implied the loss of fat mattered as well as the absolute amount. It looked at women who started a workout regimen and it showed that women who lost 20% of their body fat stoped ovulating, but began again after a period of adjustment whether they regained the fat it or not. Then it went to theorize about the evolutionary benefits of this.
Are you saying that you think that the current average (mean) weight or size should be a guideline for figuring out what a 'normal' (healthy) BMI should be? Or are you just commenting on the disparity between the two?
We currently live in a country where the cheapest and most available food is usually not so healthy. So it's definitely possible to have a national average size that is not a healthy size. (I'm not arguing against the idea that sexist assumptions and beliefs can affect standards for health but I don't think that fact means the standards are necessarily totally wrong.)
Just commenting on the disparity but also the disparity between "healthy" and "reasonably attractive," mainly, although yes, our national average size is probably not healthy.
On a related note, anyone else notice a massive increase in catcalling since the weather got better?
YES. I was on the bike, wearing a hoodie and capris, and a HELMET FOR GOODNESS SAKE. Really wanted to say to them, "don't hoot at what you can't catch!" and speed away, but I ride by that construction site every day... and seriously? Smoochy noises? What are you, twelve?
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On a related note, anyone else notice a massive increase in catcalling since the weather got better? I swear, guys, when you're hooting at a 30-year-old plumpish mom walking her dog...(yes, I was wearing a low-ish cut shirt, because CP and i were going out to dinner, but...)
I wonder what the right range is for supporting reproduction, actually?
Mostly, my point was that this Flickr site provided a way for me to see a disjunction between BMI and my own concepts of attractive body image; jdw and contrariety and others are totally correct that the next step is not "Aha,BMI is wrong; I will eat as much ice cream as I want!" but rather "BMI is about health, roughly, and that's different from average attractiveness, esp. as BMI normal /= average (which turns out to be size 14 for U.S. women)."
There's also an interesting separate issue here, which is that doctors are explicitly valuing length of life over all other considerations. (I know that extremely low-calorie diets are said to extend life, for instance.) Personally, I'd be happy to sacrifice, say, the years 87-90 in return for 8 decades of occasional really yummy food cooked in lots of butter.
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As far as body fat, men can get down to 2-3% before their brain gets starved for fat and dies (bodybuilders try to get down to this a few days before a show, then gain it back right away). Women are more like 12%. But they stop menstruating around 15-18% I think.
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It's been a while, but I was fascinated by this back in my undergrad days. I remember reading one study that implied the loss of fat mattered as well as the absolute amount. It looked at women who started a workout regimen and it showed that women who lost 20% of their body fat stoped ovulating, but began again after a period of adjustment whether they regained the fat it or not. Then it went to theorize about the evolutionary benefits of this.
(no subject)
We currently live in a country where the cheapest and most available food is usually not so healthy. So it's definitely possible to have a national average size that is not a healthy size. (I'm not arguing against the idea that sexist assumptions and beliefs can affect standards for health but I don't think that fact means the standards are necessarily totally wrong.)
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YES. I was on the bike, wearing a hoodie and capris, and a HELMET FOR GOODNESS SAKE. Really wanted to say to them, "don't hoot at what you can't catch!" and speed away, but I ride by that construction site every day... and seriously? Smoochy noises? What are you, twelve?