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posted by [personal profile] orichalcum at 03:51pm on 29/04/2008 under
The New York Times just gave an incredibly favorable review to the new Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City (aka NYC) game. It praises the game's graphics, its sandbox design, its music, its variability, etc...

Nowhere in the review does the reviewer (Seth Schiesel) comment on the relative morality of the game or what age group it might be suitable for.

Keep in mind that, aside from the robbery, assault, carjacking, etc.. plots....this is a game in which you (_can_ - Edited for accuracy, thanks [livejournal.com profile] redhound) hire prostitutes, have sex with them, and _then kill them._ That's what women are for in the game context. Not one of the numerous characters mentioned in the review is female. In the preview, female strippers at a strip club talk about how stripping arouses them. The online dating club is called "The Twat."

So...my question is - should reviews in this case query the moral and age-appropriate content of a game? Admittedly, I don't necessarily expect reviews of, say, Sex and the City to condemn it for questionable relationships, or Deadwood to be slammed because of all the obscenity. But I'd kinda like to know about it in both cases.

GTA crosses the line for me where I wish, I really wish, that someone was devoting all that effort to making a game with content that I'd feel comfortable playing. But while it may have great gameplay, the thought of selling it to 10-year-olds upsets me.

Am I overreacting? Should this game just be evaluated on the basis of whether it's fun to play?
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There are 42 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] meepodeekin.livejournal.com at 09:03pm on 29/04/2008
I don't think you are overreacting. The GTA games are supposed to be really fun, but I have refused to even look at playing any of them.

I am reminded of an argument I got into on the Neverwinter Nights online fora a few years back--some people were discussing playing as an evil pc. (There are actions, quests, items, etc that only an evil character can get.) Another player said that she could never see herself playing an evil character because she couldn't, for example, kill innocent bystanders to keep her alignment rating. (In the game alignment is measured on a 0-100 scale and if you go above 30 you "lose" your evilness and all its benefits.) A large number of people on the thread attacked this woman, saying that she was an idiot and a prude and a neurotic and that game actions aren't real etc etc. I tried to stand up for her. I don't think it's ok to kill an innocent child, even if that child is 2d. I don't necessarily have a problem with another adult doing it in their own home, but I never would. It makes me sick to think about it. And the idea that kids are playing this game with an evil alignment encouraged (or, in the case of GTA, required) really bugs me.

Long diversion, sorry. What I meant to say was, I agree with you.
 
posted by [identity profile] gee-tar.livejournal.com at 07:15pm on 30/04/2008
From what I understand of GTA IV, the number of heinous acts you are required to do is to advance plot is relatively minimal. The number you are allowed to do is quite high, but I think there is a real difference between required action to continue gameplay versus being given the freedom and the existential choice of setting your own moral compass.
 
posted by [identity profile] meepodeekin.livejournal.com at 10:08pm on 30/04/2008
There is a huge difference, you're right. I haven't actually played any of them, so I wouldn't know. Which, to be fair, is exactly why this sort of content should be in a review. Even if it's just to say that it's not as bad as previous editions and it's safe for people like me to stop boycotting now.

As in my anecdote above, I am fine with buying and playing a game that has evil options in an RP or sandbox setting. But I don't want to be required or strongly pushed to use them, because I won't.
 
posted by [identity profile] contrariety.livejournal.com at 09:08pm on 29/04/2008
I think the responsibility of the reviewer is to give the target audience a sense of how much they will like the game. What bothers me here is that apparently the reviewer didn't feel the gender issues were relevant to his enjoyment of the game, nor does he think that it's relevant to the target audience's enjoyment.

Though there's probably also a fundamental issue of "it's GTA, everyone already knows it's gross and misogynist, why waste my column issues on the obvious?" going on.
 
posted by [identity profile] viking-cat.livejournal.com at 09:20pm on 29/04/2008
I disagree with you. It's rated M for mature, which means you can't buy it if you're less than 17. My co-worker tells me that there were 300 people in line to buy it at Best Buy last night, and they were carding everybody. Your concern seems misplaced to me a little bit because 10 year olds can't (and certainly shouldn't) buy it.

I won't condemn an R rated movie for swearing, since it's certainly not intended to appeal to the same audience as a G rated movie. I wouldn't expect a reviewer to spell that out for me.

- K
 
posted by [identity profile] foldedfish.livejournal.com at 09:31pm on 29/04/2008
I'm with Kevin here. I don't feel a review of a rated-M game need cover its morality or target age group any more than a rated-R movie needs to do the same. When I read a review of an R film, I take it as a given that I shouldn't take my kid to see it. I assume the same for an M game.

Sure, it'd upset me if this game were being sold to 10-year-olds, just as it would upset me if the Disney Channel were showing Reservoir Dogs -- but neither is the case.
 
posted by [identity profile] foldedfish.livejournal.com at 09:32pm on 29/04/2008
...this is not to say that I don't find the misogyny appalling. I do, and I should have mentioned that I think that is fair game (no pun intended) in a review. I was just talking about the age issue above.
 
posted by [identity profile] marginaleye.livejournal.com at 11:35pm on 29/04/2008
If would be really funny if, every once in a while, attempting to do ghastly things to innocent prostitutes results in the player character ending up at the wrong end of a smoking purse-derringer, shot in the groin.
 
posted by [identity profile] senatorhatty.livejournal.com at 10:29pm on 29/04/2008
101 Reservoir Dalmatians is Crimedy at its finest.
 
posted by [identity profile] digitalemur.livejournal.com at 09:31pm on 29/04/2008
I had a thought that came from reading this; I dislike a lot of ultraviolent movies, and I actually am more comfortable with the more violent games that Rockstar makes than I am with the violent movies that Tarantino makes and the guy who makes the Saw franchise. This is because I can avoid the elements in a GTA game that I don't like, I have a choice where in the sandbox I go. I don't find that the ads for GTA games spark a fear reaction in me, or a feeling of being stuck watching it. It turns out that I was tarring them unfairly for the upsetting sound effects-- it's Crazy Taxi that I hate for the incessant sirens, but GTA is actually pleasing to listen to most of the time. By comparison, a lot of horror or gore movies are pushing what they can show in a TV ad to the point where I must change the channel to avoid looping memories of things I see or hear in them.

That means that for me there's a big difference in these kinds of content, and I'm a lot more annoyed by the very existence of certain violent movies, than I am by similarly violent games. Though that may be because I feel more bombarded by ads for the films....
 
posted by [identity profile] cerebralpaladin.livejournal.com at 09:49pm on 29/04/2008
I agree that it is relevant that it's rated M, but I disagree that that makes the content irrelevant to a review. There are probably some M games that I would really like; I find GTA sufficiently distasteful that I won't play it, however. Ideally, a review would contain that information. In particular, I compare this review to a NYT movie review. The NYT movie reviews routinely describe the rating of a movie, and for rated movies, a capsule description (frequently snarky) of what the reason for the rating is. A similar treatment of ratings in video game reviews would be appropriate, in my opinion, and treating the issue as fully resolved by the simple level of the rating seems overly simplistic. Diablo II is also M (albeit with substantially different reason text), but I'm not at all bothered by playing Diablo II. Likewise, discussion of treatment of gender would also be appropriate-- not because the game is marketed towards children, but because that would make a meaningful difference to at least some of the target market of adult game players.

That said, the principal problem with the review is that it's just a badly done review. It essentially starts with the premise that "of course anyone reading this will have played previous GTAs." So it doesn't actually lay out a description of the game or the gameplay in a way that would be intelligible to people who don't know what the game is like. Even for an enormously popular game franchise, that strikes me as a terrible way to go about writing a review.
 
posted by [identity profile] digitalemur.livejournal.com at 10:32pm on 29/04/2008
Oh, YES, the video game reviews should totally do the snarky analysis of why the game gets its rating! That would be teh best damn part!
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 09:51pm on 29/04/2008
OK fair enough - there were a lot of reports of underage kids playing it, and I wasn't sure how tightly the age restrictions were being enforced.

It seems like there's general agreement that the adult aspects of the game are less problematic than the general misogyny. I can accept that - I don't have terribly strong opinions on this, which is why I wanted to open it up for discussion. And 10-year-olds probably aren't getting their VG reviews from the NYT, anyway.

It's mostly that it seems entirely plausible that random adult aunt or uncle could read this review and think "Hey, what a great present for my niece/nephew; it's just like WoW or Zelda!" and then wind up very upset when she sees her relative killing virtual hookers. So I do wonder if there's a responsibility on the part of the reviewer to highlight the potentially objectionable content aspects, not just the quality of gameplay.
 
posted by [identity profile] redhound.livejournal.com at 10:01pm on 29/04/2008
One of the real problems in regulating video games is that people can't get over the idea that video games are for children. As a result, I think adults sometimes ignore the ratings in a way they wouldn't if buying a DVD; they figure that M must mean the game is appropriate for mature preteens or something.

It probably doesn't help that the rating scale is unfamiliar to non-gamers. Plus people aren't sure yet what to do about the effect of participation on the OK-ness of different sorts of material. Plus our culture's strange value set around the relative acceptability of sex, violence, and gore. I have to admit I'm sort of shocked that Diablo II is rated M. The ESRB isn't exactly keeping their powder dry there.
 
posted by [identity profile] digitalemur.livejournal.com at 09:24pm on 29/04/2008
Yeah, I have now vicariously played a little of GTA: San Andreas (as in I held the walkthrough of the list of graffiti tags to paint over while [livejournal.com profile] sstrickl found them all, I do not have the reflexes for the game), and they _can_ be played in a relatively clean fashion, though there will still be killin' in them. And the radio stations are marvelous. I am not sure whether you actually have to play them in an evil alignment to complete all of the in-game goals, in fact, though there are plenty of people who do so. We certainly had a blast doing what we were doing, and were pleased to be able to do so without compromising what we felt comfortable with. I know K had the same impression of Vice City (at least I think it was Vice City)-- he just avoided that stuff and enjoyed the sandbox aspects and the amusing cultural references.

Rockstar Games has perfected the inclusion of this material in order to drive sales with controversy. They're kinda like performance art for profit in that way-- it's very much part of their business model. I _do_ want the treatment of women to be mentioned in the review of this sort of game. I _do_ think it's relevant even if the reviewer is writing to the potential audience-- and when the hell has the NYTimes written solely to the potential audience? I've read a lot of really dumbass reviews of action movies by reviewers who didn't get the material, didn't understand the comic book predecessor, etc. So they _should_ be just as critical of GTA games in their reviews.
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posted by [personal profile] siercia at 09:29pm on 29/04/2008
I think a simple statement reminding readers that this game is for mature players might be in order, in case you've been living under a rock and did not know that already. To use your example, I would not necessarily expect a review of the second season of Deadwood to remind me of the foul language - it's already pretty much out there as cultural knowledge.

I also think that within the context of a game review, a discussing its morality would not be out of place, but it's also not required. Again, partly because that has been discussed to death already, and partly because the purpose of a review IS to discuss whether it's fun to play, not whether a player should be doing so.
 
posted by [identity profile] viking-cat.livejournal.com at 09:37pm on 29/04/2008
Well phrased. I don't like or enjoy misogyny, and I don't personally like to play games that feature it. I want that discussion in an article about the game, though, not in a gameplay review. I believe the latter isn't the place for an ethical or moral digression.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 09:53pm on 29/04/2008
Hmm...but most games don't get articles - and isn't the purpose of a review to tell you whether you should buy it, on a variety of levels?
 
posted by [identity profile] viking-cat.livejournal.com at 10:00pm on 29/04/2008
Well, virtually all triple A games do, particularly controversial ones.

Please don't mistake "the review shouldn't preach about the subject matter" with "the review shouldn't discuss the subject matter." The former is fine. The latter, in my opinion, is inappropriate in most game reviews.
 
posted by [identity profile] cerebralpaladin.livejournal.com at 10:11pm on 29/04/2008
I think you may have screwed up your former and latter references here (or possibly I'm just confused about what you're saying). Trying to untangle some negation a little, I would agree with the statement "a review shouldn't preach about the subject matter, but a review should discuss the subject matter." I take it that you are asserting "a review shouldn't preach about the subject matter, but a review can legitimately (but need not) discuss the subject matter." If so, our disagreement is relatively small.

All that said, I'm confused by your distinction between content for a review and content for an article. I would tend to think that a review should cover more than just gameplay-- it should be the full review of the game, including discussion of, for example, whether the story is good, whether the dialogue is well-written, and so forth. (Note that this was labeled as a review, not as a game-play preview or something like that.) And in fact, the content of this review goes well beyond gameplay, discussing the quality of the soundtrack for example. I would think that discussing the good and bad aspects of the story line would also be appropriate, including issues like gender treatment and degrees of violence. I agree that issues like "the controversy about the game" and whether, in fact, lots of 10 year olds are buying the game (as is sometimes claimed by the media) or almost none are (as is sometimes claimed by game manufacturers) would be misplaced in a review.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 10:16pm on 29/04/2008
Ah, fair enough, though I think you mean the reverse of latter and former? Mostly, I felt there was a lack of information sufficient for me to make a decision about whether or not I wanted to buy the game, except that I knew about its content from previous versions and could assume the content of this game would be similar.
 
posted by [identity profile] meepodeekin.livejournal.com at 11:21pm on 29/04/2008
I completely disagree, actually. Most "feature articles" are little more than free advertisements for the game, with crowing interviews with the programmers or designers or whatever and luscious screen shots. I have never seen a critical feature article of a game. (The same goes for movies, btw. It is often hilarious to read the glowing 10 page article about some new blockbuster movie and the cruel 500 word C- review in the same issue of Entertainment Weekly.)

The purpose of a review is to critique all of the reasons a person might or might not want to play the game. That includes gameplay, soundtrack, morality, gross imagery, interface, everything. Why would you exclude a topic that seriously affects potential purchasers from a review?
 
posted by [identity profile] ellinor.livejournal.com at 09:36pm on 29/04/2008
I'm with [livejournal.com profile] viking_cat on this one. I understand why there's a lot of controversy over the game, and I question its gender politics on a personal level, but even as a heartfelt pacifist, I enjoy fantasy violence under some circumstances and respect the rights of others to do so even when I might not. This game has an age restriction for purchase, and individuals under that age should not be purchasing it. Stores who sell the game are going to enforce that because of the controversy surrounding the game. And just because I don't like an expressive work doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Frankly, there is a good opportunity for a "teaching moment" in this game, and in many war games, if people are paying attention. Although I don't know if enough people are.

So, maybe you (or maybe even I) think less of the reviewer on a personal level because he is someone who finds this particular brand of fantasy violence enjoyable. But people know what the game is about. What they want to know is whether it does that thing well. What the reviewer is telling them is that it does. So it's a useful review. Frankly, it would be a less useful review if it condemned the game for its subject matter rather than discussing its play characteristics, since people already know about one and not the other.
 
posted by [identity profile] ellinor.livejournal.com at 09:39pm on 29/04/2008
. . . which -- I should point out -- is not to say that a mention of mature subject matter or the like would have been out of place.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 10:10pm on 29/04/2008
But do people know what the game is about? You and I do, sure. But I'm thinking about the non-VG players reading the NYT who may be considering it as a present, and have (quite easily, really) missed the controversy over previous versions.
 
posted by [identity profile] ellinor.livejournal.com at 10:46pm on 29/04/2008
Which is why I say that a mention of mature subject matter would not have been out of place. In fact, given that the NYT is not a publication for gamers, as you rightly point out, it would probably be a good idea to give some concept of what the game is about just on general principles. But I think the point is that violent games are violent games, and information about mature subject matter in a review in which the reviewer thought the game play was excellent would be more properly stated as an admonition than as a condemnation. And it's just backup to the "M" for Mature, which should accomplish this on its own. I don't know that it's a reviewer's responsibility, although it's a good idea. I find the analogy to Deadwood to be a good one.
 
posted by [identity profile] meepodeekin.livejournal.com at 11:24pm on 29/04/2008
Of course people have the right to play the game. Why would any review of any type with any content affect that?

I would be pretty upset if a review left out any aspect that significantly affected playability. And for me, and in my experience plenty of others, the level of despicable behavior in the game affects its playability. Not the fantasy violence, or the mature level, per se, but the moral issues. I would also be upset if the reviewer left out a discussion of the actual game play. It's not a review to say "It's wrong, don't buy it." But I also don't think it's a responsible review to say "I had fun, buy it," if it is reasonable to expect a significant number of people won't find it fun.
 
posted by [identity profile] redhound.livejournal.com at 09:52pm on 29/04/2008
To begin by blandly answering your question, I think game review should mention a game's rating, as a matter of consumer information if nothing else. I think it would be reasonable for a reviewer to comment on whether she thought the rating was accurate, but I don't think it's obligatory.

To wrestle with the more troubling issues, though, GTA has always squicked me a bit, for much the same reasons you discuss. However, I feel like the phrase "hire prostitutes, have sex with them, and then kill them" really ought to be prefaced with the word "can". No one tells you to go kill prostitutes (or at least they didn't in GTA3; I haven't seen 4), and I think the implication that this is what one is supposed to do in the game obscures a situation that has enough sketchy stuff going on already.

It's sort of implicit in sandbox design that if you're going to make a sandbox game about sleazy dirtbag criminals in a sleazy dirtbag city, you're not really doing your job if you don't allow players to hire prostitutes, and you're not really doing your job if you don't allow players to kill people and take their money. The fact that this readily facilitates doing horrifying serial-killer shit is very creepy to me, but that's the price of interactivity. Back in the day, there was a disturbing amount of rape in D&D campaigns run by lonely teenage boys with rage issues. To some extent, these possibilities are indeed what an M rating is for. (It's also worth noting that you can, if you want, make GTA a game about driving around listening to the radio, or about ludicrous stunt driving, or about hiring prostitutes and then not killing them.)

The general absence of females other than in a sex worker context is less defensible to me, and the M rating doesn't help with that in my mind. One could, I suppose, appeal to the genre conventions, but I'm not terribly impressed by that.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 09:59pm on 29/04/2008
Duly edited - you're right. While there doesn't seem to be anything to do with women other than for the male protagonists to have sex with them (and, if they like, rob and kill them), it's an option, not a requirement. Apparently, there is more gameplay in 4 devoted to seriously sketchy online dating?

Regarding the genre issues, I see your point, but why not have a kickass prostitute/female gangleader character, at the least, who would not be particularly out of genre?
 
posted by [identity profile] redhound.livejournal.com at 10:02pm on 29/04/2008
As I say, I'm not all that persuaded by the genre convention argument; GTA is, in fact, kind of gross in that way.

 
posted by [identity profile] cerebralpaladin.livejournal.com at 10:00pm on 29/04/2008
I completely agree with your comments about the nature of sandbox design. There is a serious problem with various people assuming that games will be played in the most morally dubious way possible. That said, my understanding is that the core plot also requires a fairly high level of violence.
 
posted by [identity profile] redhound.livejournal.com at 10:07pm on 29/04/2008
True, but a) I know a lot of people who have generally found the core plot of GTA's various incarnations kind of lame and not the point, and b) in that respect, GTA is hardly unusual. It's the "hire prostitutes and then kill them" stuff that gets called out as unique. (I guess there's a layer of cop-killing we could talk about if the serial-killer aspect gets stripped away.)
 
posted by [identity profile] stolen-tea.livejournal.com at 02:23am on 30/04/2008
One of the most amusing features of a 10-year-old space exploration/conquest game that I liked (Master of Orion II) was one of those sandbox features. In the mid-game, you can develop the technology to convert asteroid belts (and gas giants) into habitable planets. In the end-game, you can develop the technology to create your very own Death Star - which in effect converts a planet into an asteroid belt.

And there were some planets out there that were just annoying - they were too small, or were un-terraformable, or had sub-optimal gravity.

And because the game wasn't a perfect sandbox, you could only destroy planets that were inhabited by other civilizations...

I'm not sure GTA is much different, aside from being more relevant to some people's day to day lives.
 
posted by [identity profile] lisa-bee.livejournal.com at 11:06pm on 29/04/2008
For me, there are two different aspects of GTA that make me never want to play it -- the violence, and the pervasive misogyny.

I don't have much of a problem with GTA's violence going unmentioned in a review, because it is rated, and because it's so well known at this point that very few people would be surprised to see its violence. (And in theory you can't buy it unless you're over 17 years old.)

But the fact that there was no reference whatsoever to the fact that women are objects -- objects designed to pander to stereotypical male desires? I think that deserves mention. This may be partially because I think misogyny is more insidious than violence: it is less visible and more likely to go uncommented on.

And now that I think about it, it's not the violence of GTA that makes me not play it: it's the fact that women are so completely non-people in GTA that bothers me so much. And GTA isn't alone: there are so incredibly few video games in which women are actually treated like people rather than sex objects that might potentially be playable characters or eye candy.
 
posted by [identity profile] zfarcher.livejournal.com at 11:38pm on 29/04/2008
Ditto to the above.

I could never play GTA as I find the entire premise abhorrent, but most especially the way women are allegedly treated in game. I have no major problem in general with sex and violence, but do have a problem with the glorification of antisocial behavior and the flouting of the law.

I think any review should mention some of the less-savory aspects of the game. There are a segment of folks who will find this sort of thing enjoyable. But to praise some of the positive aspects of the game while ignoring its seamier side is (IMHO) utterly inappropriate.
 
posted by [identity profile] julianyap.livejournal.com at 12:58am on 30/04/2008
Having not yet unwrapped the game, I'm given to understand from reviews I've read that GTA IV is actually much less appalling than GTA III. The Slate review indicates that there is a much greater moral dimension to your actions, and other reviews I've read have highlighted the "dating sim" aspects of the game as something far different from GTA III.

Not to say, of course, that some teenager won't go on a killing spree or the GTA III classic hire prostitute/kill prostitute and take her money. But there does seem to be a whole different level of morality and (based again purely on reviews) less misogyny than GTA III.

Also, to follow up on the carding thing, I bought the game at a Best Buy, where they were IDing everyone who wanted to buy it.
 
posted by [identity profile] cerridwynn.livejournal.com at 12:51pm on 30/04/2008
We heard a great review on NPR last night. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90041944

One of the really interesting things about the NPR story is that they talked about the fact that young kids will, inevitably, play this game... but the conclusion was that maybe that wasn't such a terrible thing -- that kids can tell right from wrong -- and that they really enjoyed the fact that the game series lets you be a good guy (and drive an ambulance or catch other bad guys) as well as bad. There was more to it than that -- you'll have to listen.

Anyway, I haven't read the NYT review but i'm not sure a reviewer has any responsibility to comment on the relative morality of their subject -- that's just such a huge problem to tackle, and probably outside the scope of a review! (The age thing is a more valid complaint though). And while i don't intend to play the game myself, someday (when we have a sufficiently advanced game system) i expect i'll watch mentalapse play. He's a fan of the games and i've watched him play GTA III. I wasn't really all that bothered by the violence or the misogeny -- sure, it's there, but even in GTA III (and i expect even more so in GTA IV) the violence and misogeny were both amusingly satirical but also had enough realism as to feel really tragic. Dark humor makes for great social criticism. Plus, there wasn't the same purely gleeful destruction that i get from bloody, un-nuanced shooter games -- those bother me a lot more.

(Sorry to ramble... I just think this is a really interesting topic!)
 
posted by [identity profile] kid-cthulhu.livejournal.com at 01:42pm on 30/04/2008
My feeling is that any reviewer, movie, book, game, whatever, should give some form of plot synopsis or at least a feel for what the piece is about. I hate reviews that give away the ending and secrets, but I do like to know "this is a game where you play fluffy bunnies", versus "this is a game where you play skateboarding teens".

That said, I may be the only female in existence who finds GTA just fine and actually kind of amusing. Perhaps because it's so amazingly over the top and tongue in cheek that I find it very hard to believe that anyone could take it seriously.

Would I let my child play it? No. Do I think it deserves an M rating if only because the sarcasm and sillyness of it require maturity to detect? Hell yes. But I guess I've never understood the fuss.

The attention people play to GTA and other violent games, is a little like a game of telephone. With each person who repeats the violent aspects, you get further removed from the sarcasm, and closer to taking the damn thing seriously, which I think was never the creators' intent.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 02:19pm on 30/04/2008
That makes sense; it's easy to believe that stories have been distorted, since I've never played. But yeah...mostly, it bothered me that this review didn't give much of an indication that significant amounts of gameplay involved both murder and highly sexualized material.

I'm sure there's a game out there where you play fluffy bunny skateboarders...
 
posted by [identity profile] julianyap.livejournal.com at 03:14pm on 30/04/2008
Surely there must be, there's a game where you play Zombie Teenagers fighting Evil Alien Brains.
 
posted by [identity profile] fullcopy.livejournal.com at 07:41pm on 30/04/2008
Hoverboarding rabbits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Al1UZDxIU&feature=related

Having played a little bit of GTA III, and currently two hours of GTA IV, there's certainly a difference between the possibility and the endorsement. The pay a prostitute/kill a prostitute technique exists, but if it's anything like GTA III, it's neither useful (replenishing health is easy to do anyway) and the amount of money involved is so trivial once you get past the first few hours that there's just no reason to do it.

In the first two hours so far, I've met my cousin, who is irresponsible with money and a pig, and watching him be rejected by his coworker several times, as well as being in constantly in trouble due to his lying. I've been on a bowling date with his coworker's friend, which was filled with polite if awkward small talk (she's an overworked professional and a bit OCD), got brushed off by her when I tried to call back the next day, and went on another date (to play pool) shortly after, and went up to her apartment afterwards, although there was definitely a sense of this being a "mothering a somewhat-lost and mysterious man" type of thing.

I don't doubt that the humor which sort of permeates the fake NYC is juvenile and misogynist, and odds on, there probably is going to be a mission which turns out offensive. But I don't see the misogyny as anything that's meaningful to the game. How much you're willing to buy that misogyny is part of their "We make fun of everybody!" approach is up in the air.

That said, while the lead character makes some notion to that killing people is not something he likes, it's already been established that he will, and it's foreshadowed that the trail of bodies is going to be quite quite long.

updates to follow.
 
posted by [identity profile] orichalcum.livejournal.com at 08:41pm on 30/04/2008
Thanks! I knew I could count on somebody to provide me with bunny skateboarders. :)

Good to hear a report of the actual game. As I hear more, I think more of my problems are with the review than with the game, if that makes sense?

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