posted by
orichalcum at 03:51pm on 29/04/2008 under gaming
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The New York Times just gave an incredibly favorable review to the new Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City (aka NYC) game. It praises the game's graphics, its sandbox design, its music, its variability, etc...
Nowhere in the review does the reviewer (Seth Schiesel) comment on the relative morality of the game or what age group it might be suitable for.
Keep in mind that, aside from the robbery, assault, carjacking, etc.. plots....this is a game in which you (_can_ - Edited for accuracy, thanks
redhound) hire prostitutes, have sex with them, and _then kill them._ That's what women are for in the game context. Not one of the numerous characters mentioned in the review is female. In the preview, female strippers at a strip club talk about how stripping arouses them. The online dating club is called "The Twat."
So...my question is - should reviews in this case query the moral and age-appropriate content of a game? Admittedly, I don't necessarily expect reviews of, say, Sex and the City to condemn it for questionable relationships, or Deadwood to be slammed because of all the obscenity. But I'd kinda like to know about it in both cases.
GTA crosses the line for me where I wish, I really wish, that someone was devoting all that effort to making a game with content that I'd feel comfortable playing. But while it may have great gameplay, the thought of selling it to 10-year-olds upsets me.
Am I overreacting? Should this game just be evaluated on the basis of whether it's fun to play?
Nowhere in the review does the reviewer (Seth Schiesel) comment on the relative morality of the game or what age group it might be suitable for.
Keep in mind that, aside from the robbery, assault, carjacking, etc.. plots....this is a game in which you (_can_ - Edited for accuracy, thanks
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So...my question is - should reviews in this case query the moral and age-appropriate content of a game? Admittedly, I don't necessarily expect reviews of, say, Sex and the City to condemn it for questionable relationships, or Deadwood to be slammed because of all the obscenity. But I'd kinda like to know about it in both cases.
GTA crosses the line for me where I wish, I really wish, that someone was devoting all that effort to making a game with content that I'd feel comfortable playing. But while it may have great gameplay, the thought of selling it to 10-year-olds upsets me.
Am I overreacting? Should this game just be evaluated on the basis of whether it's fun to play?
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I am reminded of an argument I got into on the Neverwinter Nights online fora a few years back--some people were discussing playing as an evil pc. (There are actions, quests, items, etc that only an evil character can get.) Another player said that she could never see herself playing an evil character because she couldn't, for example, kill innocent bystanders to keep her alignment rating. (In the game alignment is measured on a 0-100 scale and if you go above 30 you "lose" your evilness and all its benefits.) A large number of people on the thread attacked this woman, saying that she was an idiot and a prude and a neurotic and that game actions aren't real etc etc. I tried to stand up for her. I don't think it's ok to kill an innocent child, even if that child is 2d. I don't necessarily have a problem with another adult doing it in their own home, but I never would. It makes me sick to think about it. And the idea that kids are playing this game with an evil alignment encouraged (or, in the case of GTA, required) really bugs me.
Long diversion, sorry. What I meant to say was, I agree with you.
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As in my anecdote above, I am fine with buying and playing a game that has evil options in an RP or sandbox setting. But I don't want to be required or strongly pushed to use them, because I won't.
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Though there's probably also a fundamental issue of "it's GTA, everyone already knows it's gross and misogynist, why waste my column issues on the obvious?" going on.
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I won't condemn an R rated movie for swearing, since it's certainly not intended to appeal to the same audience as a G rated movie. I wouldn't expect a reviewer to spell that out for me.
- K
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Sure, it'd upset me if this game were being sold to 10-year-olds, just as it would upset me if the Disney Channel were showing Reservoir Dogs -- but neither is the case.
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That means that for me there's a big difference in these kinds of content, and I'm a lot more annoyed by the very existence of certain violent movies, than I am by similarly violent games. Though that may be because I feel more bombarded by ads for the films....
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That said, the principal problem with the review is that it's just a badly done review. It essentially starts with the premise that "of course anyone reading this will have played previous GTAs." So it doesn't actually lay out a description of the game or the gameplay in a way that would be intelligible to people who don't know what the game is like. Even for an enormously popular game franchise, that strikes me as a terrible way to go about writing a review.
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It seems like there's general agreement that the adult aspects of the game are less problematic than the general misogyny. I can accept that - I don't have terribly strong opinions on this, which is why I wanted to open it up for discussion. And 10-year-olds probably aren't getting their VG reviews from the NYT, anyway.
It's mostly that it seems entirely plausible that random adult aunt or uncle could read this review and think "Hey, what a great present for my niece/nephew; it's just like WoW or Zelda!" and then wind up very upset when she sees her relative killing virtual hookers. So I do wonder if there's a responsibility on the part of the reviewer to highlight the potentially objectionable content aspects, not just the quality of gameplay.
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It probably doesn't help that the rating scale is unfamiliar to non-gamers. Plus people aren't sure yet what to do about the effect of participation on the OK-ness of different sorts of material. Plus our culture's strange value set around the relative acceptability of sex, violence, and gore. I have to admit I'm sort of shocked that Diablo II is rated M. The ESRB isn't exactly keeping their powder dry there.
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Rockstar Games has perfected the inclusion of this material in order to drive sales with controversy. They're kinda like performance art for profit in that way-- it's very much part of their business model. I _do_ want the treatment of women to be mentioned in the review of this sort of game. I _do_ think it's relevant even if the reviewer is writing to the potential audience-- and when the hell has the NYTimes written solely to the potential audience? I've read a lot of really dumbass reviews of action movies by reviewers who didn't get the material, didn't understand the comic book predecessor, etc. So they _should_ be just as critical of GTA games in their reviews.
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I also think that within the context of a game review, a discussing its morality would not be out of place, but it's also not required. Again, partly because that has been discussed to death already, and partly because the purpose of a review IS to discuss whether it's fun to play, not whether a player should be doing so.
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Please don't mistake "the review shouldn't preach about the subject matter" with "the review shouldn't discuss the subject matter." The former is fine. The latter, in my opinion, is inappropriate in most game reviews.
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All that said, I'm confused by your distinction between content for a review and content for an article. I would tend to think that a review should cover more than just gameplay-- it should be the full review of the game, including discussion of, for example, whether the story is good, whether the dialogue is well-written, and so forth. (Note that this was labeled as a review, not as a game-play preview or something like that.) And in fact, the content of this review goes well beyond gameplay, discussing the quality of the soundtrack for example. I would think that discussing the good and bad aspects of the story line would also be appropriate, including issues like gender treatment and degrees of violence. I agree that issues like "the controversy about the game" and whether, in fact, lots of 10 year olds are buying the game (as is sometimes claimed by the media) or almost none are (as is sometimes claimed by game manufacturers) would be misplaced in a review.
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The purpose of a review is to critique all of the reasons a person might or might not want to play the game. That includes gameplay, soundtrack, morality, gross imagery, interface, everything. Why would you exclude a topic that seriously affects potential purchasers from a review?
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So, maybe you (or maybe even I) think less of the reviewer on a personal level because he is someone who finds this particular brand of fantasy violence enjoyable. But people know what the game is about. What they want to know is whether it does that thing well. What the reviewer is telling them is that it does. So it's a useful review. Frankly, it would be a less useful review if it condemned the game for its subject matter rather than discussing its play characteristics, since people already know about one and not the other.
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I would be pretty upset if a review left out any aspect that significantly affected playability. And for me, and in my experience plenty of others, the level of despicable behavior in the game affects its playability. Not the fantasy violence, or the mature level, per se, but the moral issues. I would also be upset if the reviewer left out a discussion of the actual game play. It's not a review to say "It's wrong, don't buy it." But I also don't think it's a responsible review to say "I had fun, buy it," if it is reasonable to expect a significant number of people won't find it fun.
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To wrestle with the more troubling issues, though, GTA has always squicked me a bit, for much the same reasons you discuss. However, I feel like the phrase "hire prostitutes, have sex with them, and then kill them" really ought to be prefaced with the word "can". No one tells you to go kill prostitutes (or at least they didn't in GTA3; I haven't seen 4), and I think the implication that this is what one is supposed to do in the game obscures a situation that has enough sketchy stuff going on already.
It's sort of implicit in sandbox design that if you're going to make a sandbox game about sleazy dirtbag criminals in a sleazy dirtbag city, you're not really doing your job if you don't allow players to hire prostitutes, and you're not really doing your job if you don't allow players to kill people and take their money. The fact that this readily facilitates doing horrifying serial-killer shit is very creepy to me, but that's the price of interactivity. Back in the day, there was a disturbing amount of rape in D&D campaigns run by lonely teenage boys with rage issues. To some extent, these possibilities are indeed what an M rating is for. (It's also worth noting that you can, if you want, make GTA a game about driving around listening to the radio, or about ludicrous stunt driving, or about hiring prostitutes and then not killing them.)
The general absence of females other than in a sex worker context is less defensible to me, and the M rating doesn't help with that in my mind. One could, I suppose, appeal to the genre conventions, but I'm not terribly impressed by that.
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Regarding the genre issues, I see your point, but why not have a kickass prostitute/female gangleader character, at the least, who would not be particularly out of genre?
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And there were some planets out there that were just annoying - they were too small, or were un-terraformable, or had sub-optimal gravity.
And because the game wasn't a perfect sandbox, you could only destroy planets that were inhabited by other civilizations...
I'm not sure GTA is much different, aside from being more relevant to some people's day to day lives.
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I don't have much of a problem with GTA's violence going unmentioned in a review, because it is rated, and because it's so well known at this point that very few people would be surprised to see its violence. (And in theory you can't buy it unless you're over 17 years old.)
But the fact that there was no reference whatsoever to the fact that women are objects -- objects designed to pander to stereotypical male desires? I think that deserves mention. This may be partially because I think misogyny is more insidious than violence: it is less visible and more likely to go uncommented on.
And now that I think about it, it's not the violence of GTA that makes me not play it: it's the fact that women are so completely non-people in GTA that bothers me so much. And GTA isn't alone: there are so incredibly few video games in which women are actually treated like people rather than sex objects that might potentially be playable characters or eye candy.
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I could never play GTA as I find the entire premise abhorrent, but most especially the way women are allegedly treated in game. I have no major problem in general with sex and violence, but do have a problem with the glorification of antisocial behavior and the flouting of the law.
I think any review should mention some of the less-savory aspects of the game. There are a segment of folks who will find this sort of thing enjoyable. But to praise some of the positive aspects of the game while ignoring its seamier side is (IMHO) utterly inappropriate.
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Not to say, of course, that some teenager won't go on a killing spree or the GTA III classic hire prostitute/kill prostitute and take her money. But there does seem to be a whole different level of morality and (based again purely on reviews) less misogyny than GTA III.
Also, to follow up on the carding thing, I bought the game at a Best Buy, where they were IDing everyone who wanted to buy it.
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One of the really interesting things about the NPR story is that they talked about the fact that young kids will, inevitably, play this game... but the conclusion was that maybe that wasn't such a terrible thing -- that kids can tell right from wrong -- and that they really enjoyed the fact that the game series lets you be a good guy (and drive an ambulance or catch other bad guys) as well as bad. There was more to it than that -- you'll have to listen.
Anyway, I haven't read the NYT review but i'm not sure a reviewer has any responsibility to comment on the relative morality of their subject -- that's just such a huge problem to tackle, and probably outside the scope of a review! (The age thing is a more valid complaint though). And while i don't intend to play the game myself, someday (when we have a sufficiently advanced game system) i expect i'll watch mentalapse play. He's a fan of the games and i've watched him play GTA III. I wasn't really all that bothered by the violence or the misogeny -- sure, it's there, but even in GTA III (and i expect even more so in GTA IV) the violence and misogeny were both amusingly satirical but also had enough realism as to feel really tragic. Dark humor makes for great social criticism. Plus, there wasn't the same purely gleeful destruction that i get from bloody, un-nuanced shooter games -- those bother me a lot more.
(Sorry to ramble... I just think this is a really interesting topic!)
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That said, I may be the only female in existence who finds GTA just fine and actually kind of amusing. Perhaps because it's so amazingly over the top and tongue in cheek that I find it very hard to believe that anyone could take it seriously.
Would I let my child play it? No. Do I think it deserves an M rating if only because the sarcasm and sillyness of it require maturity to detect? Hell yes. But I guess I've never understood the fuss.
The attention people play to GTA and other violent games, is a little like a game of telephone. With each person who repeats the violent aspects, you get further removed from the sarcasm, and closer to taking the damn thing seriously, which I think was never the creators' intent.
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I'm sure there's a game out there where you play fluffy bunny skateboarders...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Al1UZDxIU&feature=related
Having played a little bit of GTA III, and currently two hours of GTA IV, there's certainly a difference between the possibility and the endorsement. The pay a prostitute/kill a prostitute technique exists, but if it's anything like GTA III, it's neither useful (replenishing health is easy to do anyway) and the amount of money involved is so trivial once you get past the first few hours that there's just no reason to do it.
In the first two hours so far, I've met my cousin, who is irresponsible with money and a pig, and watching him be rejected by his coworker several times, as well as being in constantly in trouble due to his lying. I've been on a bowling date with his coworker's friend, which was filled with polite if awkward small talk (she's an overworked professional and a bit OCD), got brushed off by her when I tried to call back the next day, and went on another date (to play pool) shortly after, and went up to her apartment afterwards, although there was definitely a sense of this being a "mothering a somewhat-lost and mysterious man" type of thing.
I don't doubt that the humor which sort of permeates the fake NYC is juvenile and misogynist, and odds on, there probably is going to be a mission which turns out offensive. But I don't see the misogyny as anything that's meaningful to the game. How much you're willing to buy that misogyny is part of their "We make fun of everybody!" approach is up in the air.
That said, while the lead character makes some notion to that killing people is not something he likes, it's already been established that he will, and it's foreshadowed that the trail of bodies is going to be quite quite long.
updates to follow.
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Good to hear a report of the actual game. As I hear more, I think more of my problems are with the review than with the game, if that makes sense?